You Are Like A Vase That Can Hold Only So Many Flowers.
2nd Interview with Chen & Iosa (Spiritual Guides of Karen Sargood) and Others (Spiritual Guides). 31 Dec 2009.
Present: Karen Sargood, Natalie Dekel and Gil Dekel.
Chen:
Now then, we wish to speak of our world. Our world and your world are one.
...I am now becoming the channel, and I shall change into who is coming through me... So though I am still Chen, I speak now for many (we shall call them the 'Others').
Now then... we look upon your world from ours. In a way that sounds strange because we're all one as a world but we are two in our visualizations.
Gil: Visualizations?
Chen:
The majority of those who sit within your world, the physical world, do not see our world at all. We are invisible to them. So the visualization is one-dimensional because they do not see the second world there. But when we look through our eyes (the connotation of eyes is used as a descriptive means so people will understand what we mean by 'looking at your world'; even though as you know only too well that we do not have eyes within the Spirit form). When we see your world through our eyes here we see it as blended as one, between here and yourselves.
It is as if it is gradations of light to dark. It is as if we stand within the realms of light and we look down into a tunnel, through a train tunnel. So we are the light on the outside, we are the light as if we are the sunshine beyond the tunnel's mouth.
Our world sits beyond the tunnel's mouth and is in the light, as if the train track has come out of the tunnel. We wish to open many eyes to the world beyond your own physical dimensions. There are few who see the world beyond it as it truly is. Those that do, they see how we see the world as a whole. There are no divisions between Spiritual and physical, it is varying gradations.
When those few look into our world, if you like, they see it as one, like we do. They do not see people who have passed as individual Spirits, they see them as whole within the world, the world as one.
Others:
We wish to teach, to share, to help, and impart knowledge through appointed people here; we have appointed them so they can make sure that information goes to those who need it.
There is much work to do and time is endless on our side. So beyond your lifetimes the teachings will still continue. And when you return you will continue the work here and others will take over. It is transitional... In reality what you touch as solid, is not solid, but transitional. Nothing is truly as it seems. We wish to show others on your world that there is much to learn from this world here.
The teachings will not be easy but then that is part of the process. If something was easy and given on a plate then where is the worth in it? There is nothing worth having if you can just go and take it. It is not precious, then - it is worthless. If you work for something, if you have to do hard labour and if you have to put in hours, structure and time from your side then it has meaning, it has purpose and you remember what you have done. It ensures that you remember it until the time you leave this place because it forms part and parcel of who you are.
So many in your world live from the minute they get up to the minute they go to sleep and the bits in between are forgotten; there is little that is of value here. It is a throw-away society because of the way technology has enabled you to grow. It has given you much; but in doing so it means you have lost more than you have gained. So many see the advantages in phones, computers, the ease of communicating and travel - which in some ways it is. But it takes away from the core of who you are. It has moved you on a way from where you belong, from your true foundations and roots. It has made it materialistic and in doing so the value is lost.
The generations that are now coming through, do not understand the price that is attached to items that you buy. There is no value in what they get because they do not understand the price against the ticket. We wish to try and educate many who are coming through and to try and get them to see beyond the materialism that they only have eyes for.
Now then, this is something that is important for the time of year we have come through - we have just had Christmas. There are many who have been brought presents; many expensive presents, too. They do not understand the worth of these items. They do not understand the savings that may have gone in by those who have bought them for them. And in doing so they do not see the value in the gift - the value of who it came from maybe, but not in the item. And in doing so it has been lost in translation.
We wish to try and recover some of that materialism, to educate those that there is far more beyond the four walls, the computer, the car that they live for. They live for the next item to buy, the next new phone, the next new car, getting from here and having a holiday. That is all very well for your physical world and we understand that that is where you live. But there is such a greater force that is there than many actually see. Those that touch into it have a much more enriched life.
It is like the film The Matrix, my child. We like that film... because until you are truly immersed within it you do not see its value. Whilst you are standing outside like many do, they are just part and parcel of food for the machines, are they not, as part of the film goes? They do not have a worth or a value or a sense to them because they do not think for themselves. It is like being on a hamster wheel - they run and run, to the next item, the next thing, the next materialistic aspect.
But when you truly immerse yourself into the richness of a spiritual life... we are not asking people to give their time and devote to being monks or anything of that sort. We are simply asking people to step away from the material world for a few moments each day and to listen to the Spirit within, that which you are first, not physical. In that way you will be guided by those that love you here. They will help enrich your life beyond realms that the material world cannot even begin to touch. The material world is not rich, it is extremely poor. But unfortunately many are caught in that cycle.
Natalie: What do you mean 'extremely poor'?
Iosa:
There is no substance to it. It only has value here in a sense of being present. To live your life, you need the necessities of life, not the riches. And so your material world is poor in comparison to a life with Spiritualism and Spirituality within it - the true sense of who you are.
The Spirit World is the mass, not the minority. But sadly, many live only materialistically and they miss the majority. The richness comes from understanding that we are Spirit first.
Appreciation of the principles that Spiritualism is guided by, is not about it being a religion; it is about it being a way of life, an understanding that your decisions have consequences. Many do not think about what they are doing, they simply act. It is only later that they reap the bad seeds that they have sown. They get a poor crop. And this is what we mean by your world being poor. There is no true richness of life because they simply live for now and within this material world. There is much more beyond that, is there not, as you understand already?
Natalie: But when people have no money and they struggle, it's a little bit difficult to think of Spirit when they worry about the next day and the bread for their children.
Iosa:
We understand that, of course because your world has certain aspects which are a necessity. We are talking beyond the necessities here. We are talking that people should look with the Spiritual aspect because we will never forsake anyone. We will always make sure that they have what they need as part of their path.
That does not mean that they may have everything they need. But they have everything they need for their path. You have to remember my child, that you do not know what their path is. If they have chosen certain hardships there is no changing that from our side. You cannot put food in front of someone who has chosen a path of hunger. We are not allowed to change their lessons or learning. It is part of the process of coming here to your world. Otherwise we would be adjusting and altering their path and that is not for us to do.
Natalie: On the other hand we do know that 'if you ask you shall receive', which means that the path of hardship can be changed.
Iosa:
It can. But that is because that is meant to be, too. We would not change somebody's destination. They have lessons to learn, they have a process to go on and they will follow that path.
Natalie: So basically what we need to do is help people understand that they can ask for help.
Iosa:
That is correct. How many people are happy with what they have? How many people are happy with their lives here?
Gil: I don't know.
Iosa:
I know you do not know, but it is a question to be put out there. How many people are in marriages that they do not wish to be in? How many people are in a job that they do not enjoy? How many people do things every day that they wish they didn't do? Because they should not be doing it but they still do it because they're expected to or that they think they should.
I'm talking about staying in something when you know it's wrong - you stagnate, you stop growing. And with that comes death of the Spirit, too. If you stay in a job which is not what you want, where's the progress in that?
Natalie: But according to your theory, the stagnation is also part of the progress.
Iosa:
It is part of the learning, you are correct. However, it is when you choose to stay stagnated and not actually try and work out to move on. And there are many who do that, many who allow this process to happen, who make it far harder for themselves than it need be. We've talked of destination, have we not?
Natalie: Yes.
Iosa:
The bit in between that you choose to go on is up to you but you will still end up where you should be. And you can choose a hardship path or you can choose an easier one.
Natalie: It's all the power of the mind.
Iosa:
There is an element of that, too, and that is what we wish you to teach people. We also wish to find out and ensure that you teach about effort and sustainment.
It is about sustaining yourself, your own being, within the sustainment of the bigger picture, your family, your outer world - that is your job, your home, your personal life, your friends.
Many in your world, they do not know to sustain themselves. What we mean by that is, they do not understand what looking after themselves first and foremost is. This is not about the selfishness, this is not about the ego. This is about sustaining your own ability to be.
How do you do that? Each person will have their own way of coping with situations, dealing with certain circumstances that arise. We are not talking about how they interact, we are talking about the inner self here - how they deal with it within their own mind, within their own body and within their own Spirit.
As you grieve there is no way which is right or wrong to grieve... We each have our own process. But it is the understanding of the inner self and your workings which will be the trueness for you to find out exactly who you are, where you are going and what you need in life. Many in your world do not understand how to do that.
There are those who give willingly to others, who do not choose to look at themselves. When people 'lose their path' they are not looking after the self because they have not chosen what is important to them - or sustained it - because they are too busy holding up too many others. That is not solely the reason that people end up losing their path or feeling lost. They can lose their path or feel lost for additional reasons - that they are in a transitional state between one period of growth and another.
It is like you learning your ABC and then putting it into being able to read the words. That is the transition between the ABC and reading the books. Does that make sense?
Natalie: Yes.
Iosa:
Now then, we wish you to teach people, to show them, that it is important to not fight these gaps that they have between one aspect and another. Does that make sense?
Natalie: No...
Iosa:
There are many of you who say, 'I'm lost and I do not know where I am going'. Rather than just being in that time and existing in it and letting it be, they fight it. They try to be what they were before or what they are trying to get to at the other end. They do not live the gaps in between.
It is important that when you empty a vessel, you pause before you refill it, because you cannot go from one thing to another without first emptying your glass and then refilling it. There are times in life where to live empty for a while is more important than getting to the next stage. Because it is within the emptiness that maximum growth takes place. If you are full there is very little opportunity for new growth.
It is like picking flowers from a garden. You have a vase which is a particular size. The mouth of it will only hold so many. When you fill the vase and the flowers are adjusted and they are beautiful, you cannot keep putting in more and more because there is no more room, is there not?
Natalie: Right.
Iosa:
Now then, if you keep pushing and pushing to put more in, you will find that there is no more space and you become overloaded and that is what happens in your world. Because people keep trying to fill and fill and fill and not accepting the bit in between where the vase is empty once the flowers have passed on; they do not wait until the vase is empty and clean - rather they try to refill it before it's actually had the dead flowers taken from it.
It is a time of pausing, a time of maximum growth. It is a time of sorting through your thoughts, your needs, your wants, to put them in order. But you fight for the next topic, you run for the next destination and that is not what it is about. It is about trying to live empty for the refilling to start. All in good time.
Natalie: Maybe that's what happens with the generation now?
Iosa:
It does. They are so busy chasing the next thing they want, the next aspect they must have, the next this, the next that, that not only do they miss the purpose of what they already have, because they do not value it or see its worth, but they do not also pause to see what they truly need. They keep filling and changing and filling and changing. But they do not empty. And it is the fact that there is no emptying that creates the problems of your world now for many.
There is much for you to share with others, to let them see and understand. And with that comes the other half, we wish to teach. The other half is effort. It takes more effort to be stationary in your world, to sit empty, than it is to be full. Because once you are full and fuelled and ready to go, you keep running, you keep going to the next thing. But to sit empty, to take the effort to pause and to be empty is more important and takes more effort than that of it being full.
Now there will be many, when you put this text onto the web, that will not truly understand or appreciate the words that have been used. And we expect feedback from it because we wish to make sure that people will come to you with additional comments so that we can grow that aspect of effort and sustainability. Because it is not just you that has effort and sustainability, it is the world that you exist in, it is Mother nature. So we have a much bigger agenda to discuss in time. But that is not for tonight. That is for another day.
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Uploaded 16 Jan 2010.
2st interview, 31 Dec 2009.